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(0:00) Hello and welcome to the Catholic Torch Podcast, Episode 11.
We will start out with prayer as (0:06) always. We will be praying The Memorare.
In Nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen.
Remember, O most gracious Virgin Mary, that never was it known that anyone who fled to thy protection, implored thy help, or sought thy intercession, was left unaided. Inspired with this confidence, I fly unto thee, O Virgin of Virgins and Mother. To thee do I come, before thee I stand, sinful and sorrowful. O Mother of the Word Incarnate, despise not my petitions, but in thy mercy, hear and answer me. Amen.
In Nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen.
(0:50) Today’s episode is brought to you by Holy Queen Handmade.
Anything that I say that is true and (0:57) good and beautiful belongs to the honor and glory of our Lord and Our Lady, and anything that I say (1:03) that is erroneous is purely my own fault. And now we will continue with the Dialogue of St. Catherine (1:09) of Siena.
A Treatise of Discretion. “These are the holy and sweet works which I seek from My servants. (1:18) These are the proved intrinsic virtues of the soul, as I have told thee. They not only consist (1:24) of those virtues which are done by means of the body, that is, with an exterior act, or with diverse (1:31) and varied penances, which are the instruments of virtue; works of penance performed alone (1:38) without the above-mentioned virtues, would please Me little; often, indeed, if the soul performed not (1:46) her penance with discretion, that is to say, if her affection be placed principally in the penance (1:53) she has undertaken, her perfection will be impeded; she should rather place reliance on the affection (2:00) of love, with a holy hatred of herself, accompanied by true humility and perfect patience, together (2:08) with the other intrinsic virtues of the soul, with hunger and desire for My honor and the salvation (2:15) of souls. For these virtues demonstrate that the will is dead, and continually slays its own (2:22) sensuality through the affection of love of virtue. With this discretion, then, should the soul (2:29) perform her penance, that is, she should place her principal affection in virtue rather than in (2:36) penance. Penance should be but the means to increase virtue according to the needs of the (2:42) individual, and according to what the soul sees she can do in the measure of her own possibility. (2:50) Otherwise, if the soul places her foundation on penance she will contaminate her own perfection, (2:56) because her penance will not be done in the light of knowledge of herself and of My goodness, (3:03) with discretion, and she will not seize hold of My truth; neither loving that which I love, (3:10) nor hating that which I hate. This virtue of discretion is no other than a true knowledge (3:17) which the soul should have of herself and of Me, and in this knowledge is virtue rooted.(3:24) Discretion is the only child of self-knowledge, and wedding with charity, has indeed many other (3:32) descendants, as a tree which has many branches, but that which gives life to the tree, to its branches, (3:40) and its root, is the ground of humility, in which it is planted, which humility is the foster-mother (3:47) and nurse of charity, by whose means this tree remains in the perpetual calm of discretion. (3:55) Because otherwise the tree would not produce the virtue of discretion, or any fruit of life, (4:01) if it were not planted in the virtue of humility, because humility proceeds from self-knowledge. (4:07) And I have already said to thee, that the root of discretion is a real knowledge of self and of My (4:14) goodness, by which the soul immediately and discreetly renders to each one his due–chiefly (4:21) to me in rendering praise and glory to My Name, and in referring to Me the graces and the gifts (4:28) which she sees and knows she has received from Me; and rendering to herself that which she sees (4:36) herself to have merited, knowing that she does not even exist of herself, and attributing to Me, (4:44) and not to herself, her being, which she knows she has received by grace from Me, (4:50) and every other grace which she has received besides.
And she seems to herself to be ungrateful (4:57) for so many benefits, and negligent, in that she has not made the most of her time, (5:03) and the graces she has received, and so seems to herself worthy of suffering; wherefore, (5:10) she becomes odious and displeasing to herself through her guilt. And this founds the virtue (5:16) of discretion on knowledge of self, that is, on true humility, for, were this humility not in the (5:25) soul, the soul would be indiscreet, indiscretion being founded on pride, as discretion is on (5:32) humility.
An indiscreet soul robs Me of the honor due to Me, and attributes it to herself, (5:39) through vainglory, and that which is really her own, she imputes to Me, grieving and murmuring (5:46) concerning My mysteries, with which I work in her soul, and in those of My other creatures;(5:53) wherefore, everything in Me, and in her neighbor, is cause of scandal to her. Contrariwise, (6:00) those who possess the virtue of discretion. For, when they have rendered what is due to Me (6:06) and to themselves, they proceed to render to their neighbor their principal debt of love, (6:11) and of humble and continuous prayer, which all should pay to each other, (6:16) and further the debt of doctrine, and example of a holy and honorable life, (6:21) counseling and helping others according to their needs for salvation, as I said to thee above.(6:27) Whatever rank a man be in, whether that of a noble, a prelate, or a servant, if he have this (6:34) virtue, everything that he does to his neighbor is done discreetly and lovingly, because these (6:40) virtues are bound and mingled together, and both planted in the ground of humility which proceeds (6:47) from self-knowledge.” (Reference 1)
Now we will go back through as usual, and I will try to break it down a little (6:52) bit at a time.
“These are the holy and sweet works, which I seek from my servants; (7:00) these are the proved intrinsic virtues of the soul, as I have told thee. They not only consist (7:06) of those virtues which are done by means of the body, that is, with an exterior act, (7:12) or with diverse and varied penances, which are the instruments of virtue; works of penance (7:18) performed alone, without the above-mentioned virtues, would please Me little; often, indeed, (7:24) if the soul perform not her penance with discretion, that is to say, if her affection (7:30) be placed principally in the penance she has undertaken, her perfection will be impeded; (7:36) she should rather place reliance on the affection of love, with a holy hatred of herself, (7:42) accompanied by true humility and perfect patience, together with the other intrinsic virtues of the (7:48) soul, with hunger and desire for My honor and the salvation of souls.”
(7:55) These intrinsic virtues that God speaks of here are the three theological virtues, which are Faith, (8:02) Hope, and Charity, and the four cardinal virtues, which are Prudence, Justice, Fortitude, (8:08) and Temperance. What God is saying here is that if one were to do penance without doing it out (8:15) of love for God and our neighbor, that it would profit very little. Instead we must do these (8:21) penances out of love for God and our neighbor with a holy hatred of our own self. Simply put, (8:28) out of hatred for our own vice,(or sin) that we commit. These sins that we continually commit (8:35) can be a bad example to our neighbor, if they are visible acts, and privately they are bad for our (8:41) own soul, because they are done against an all-perfect and all-loving God, who deserves (8:48) only the best. So to die to our evil inclinations, oftentimes penance is the only way to conquer (8:55) these vices, and that is done by exercising the virtue that is opposed to the vice. For instance, (9:02) the person struggling with intemperance would practice the virtue of fasting to combat this vice; (9:09) that would better strengthen the intrinsic virtue of temperance.
(9:13) “For these virtues demonstrate that the will is dead, and continually slays its own sensuality (9:20) through the affection of love of virtue. With this discretion, then, should the soul perform (9:27) her penance, that is, she should place her principal affection in virtue rather than in (9:33) penance. Penance should be but the means to increase virtue according to the needs of the (9:39) individual, and according to what the soul sees she can do in the measure of her own possibility.”
(9:47) God says that we must use virtue to overcome the vices we battle, and the way to increase (9:54) the virtue is to practice penance as far as the soul is able, never going outside of the soul’s (10:01) own limitations to practice this penance, because that would go against discretion. Basically, (10:07) use discretion to do penance to build virtue to battle the vices that rise up within and around (10:14) you. So for instance, the mother who is pregnant or breastfeeding ought not to practice food (10:20) fasting because she may become too low on other nutrients that could affect the baby. Instead, (10:26) discern another form of fasting that doesn’t exceed your limitations, but also helps you (10:31) grow in virtue, the one that grows you closer to God and love of neighbor. For example, (10:37) maybe fast from social media or from some other licit pleasure, but out of love for God. More (10:44) often, the virtues ought to be practiced and penance foregone because it is principally the (10:50) way to slay the vices. Practicing the virtues is how Christ lived every moment on Earth. (10:56) He is the perfect example. He did all things perfectly out of love. Remember we are to look (11:03) like Christ to God. Whether that is done in this life, where the pain is not so bad, or in Purgatory, (11:09) where the only consolation is that you will make it out sometime, to be in Heaven.(11:16) Down here, we can do plenty to help that along by cooperating with God’s grace and practicing virtue. (11:23) In purgatory, we rely on the Church Militant and the Church Triumphant to pray for us to make (11:30) it through speedily. We cannot help ourselves there. We are at the mercy of God, (which is infinite) and our neighbors prayers, which have a forgetful attention span about them. Thankfully, Holy Mother (11:42) Church has, like a good mother, built in remembering all of our departed brothers and sisters into the (11:49) mass, both by the faithful and the clergy, and by various feast days.
“Otherwise, if the soul (11:58) places her foundation on penance, she will contaminate her own perfection, because her (12:04) penance will not be done in the light of knowledge of herself and of My goodness, with discretion, (12:11) and she will not seize hold of My truth; neither loving that which I love, nor hating that which I (12:17) hate.”
If the soul bases everything on penance, it contaminates its perfection, (12:24) because the soul will not know itself, and be doing the penances for the love of God, (12:29) but out of love for itself, often to the soul’s own vainglory or pride, stealing all credit that is (12:36) owed to God alone.
“This virtue of discretion is no other than a true knowledge which the soul (12:43) should have of herself and of Me, and in this knowledge is virtue rooted. Discretion is the (12:50) only child of self-knowledge, and, wedding with charity, has indeed many other descendants, as a (12:57) tree which has many branches; but that which gives life to the tree, to its branches, and its root, (13:04) is the ground of humility, in which it is planted, which humility is the foster-mother and nurse (13:12) of charity, by whose means this tree remains in the perpetual calm of discretion. Because otherwise (13:19) the tree would not produce the virtue of discretion, or any fruit of life, if it were not (13:25) planted in the virtue of humility, because humility proceeds from self-knowledge. And I have already (13:32) said to thee, that the root of discretion is a real knowledge of self and of My goodness, (13:39) by which the soul immediately, and discreetly, renders to each one his due– chiefly to Me, (13:46) in rendering praise and glory to My Name, and in referring to Me the graces and the gifts (13:52) which she sees and knows she has received from Me; and rendering to herself that which she sees (14:00) herself to have merited, knowing that she does not even exist of herself, and attributing to me, (14:07) and not to herself, her being, which she knows she has received by grace from Me, and every other (14:14) grace which she has received besides.”
God is saying here, that to have discretion one must (14:22) also have self-knowledge and charity, as well as humility. He uses the imagery of the tree that is (14:29) planted in the ground, and is fed through the soil of humility. This humility feeds charity, (14:36) and charity is united or wedded to self-knowledge, and those virtues produce the offspring of (14:42) discretion. Then many other virtues spring from that calm discretion, and all of these (14:49) order all praise and honor and glory back to God, for without Him what do we have? (14:57)
For who distinguisheth thee, or who hast thou that thou hast not received? And if thou hast received, why dost thou glory as if thou hast not received it? (1 Corinthians 4: 7) (DRB)
(15:12) All things that we do need to give Him honor and glory and praise.
(15:19) “And she seems to herself to be ungrateful for so many benefits, and negligent, in that she has not (15:27) made the most of her time, and the graces she has received, and so seems to herself worthy of (15:34) suffering; wherefore she becomes odious and displeasing to herself, through her guilt. (15:41) And this founds the virtue of discretion on knowledge of self, that is, on true humility, (15:49) for, were this humility not in the soul, the soul would be indiscreet, indiscretion being (15:56) founded on pride, as discretion is on humility.”
The soul, nextly, recognizing all the good it has (16:06) received from God, (even its own existence) becomes displeased with its own actions and vices it (16:13) commits against the all-loving and perfect God, that it recognizes its unworthiness of said (16:20) benefits. Therefore the soul who humbly recognizes this, has founded this virtue of discretion on (16:27) self-knowledge. For without the humility it would only be founded on self-love. An example of this (16:34) goes as such:
God has given me life, because He loves me, infinitely and perfectly. I say I love (16:43) Him back, but continually offend Him. He continually gives me time to show Him how much I love Him, (16:51) by practicing virtue, and I continually fail because of human frailty, but He gives me the (16:57) Sacrament of Penance to get back into a state of Sanctifying Grace. I fail again and again, (17:03) and He goes on loving me without reserve. I waste more time offending Him, by many and various ways, (17:11) and waste many graces He pours out onto me. When I finally reflect on these things, (17:18) and all the benefits and love He has been giving me to cooperate with, I break down and finally (17:25) give in, and seem to myself odious and displeasing, because I have been exchanging the love of God (17:33) and giving Him hatred back. This self-knowledge helps us to become humble and recognize that we (17:40) are completely reliant on God for all things. We must love Him back by practicing virtue, (17:47) and need I remind you, He gave you those also. Use them to love Him and your neighbor.
(17:54) “An indiscreet soul robs Me of the honor due to Me, and attributes it to herself, (18:01) through vainglory, and that which is really her own she imputes to Me, grieving and murmuring (18:09) concerning My mysteries, with which I work in her soul, and in those of my other creatures;(18:15) wherefore everything in Me and in her neighbor is cause of scandal to her. Contrariwise those (18:22) who possess the virtue of discretion. For, when they have rendered what is due to me, (18:27) and to themselves, they proceed to render to their neighbor their principal debt of love, (18:33) and of humble and continuous prayer, which all should pay to one another, and further, the debt (18:39) of doctrine, and example of a holy and honorable life, counseling and helping others according (18:45) to their needs for salvation, as I said to thee above. Whatever rank a man be in, whether that (18:53) of a noble, a prelate, or a servant, if he have this virtue, everything that he does to his neighbor (19:00) is done discreetly and lovingly, because these virtues are bound and mingled together, (19:06) and both planted in the ground of humility, which proceeds from self-knowledge.”
(19:13) The soul that does not give God glory and praise for all they have been given, (19:19) gives themselves the honor and glory and praise which is due to God. That soul gives God grieving (19:26) and murmuring about the mysteries of God that He works in the soul, and that of its neighbors. (19:32) It is just the opposite for the soul who has the virtue of discretion. This soul, (19:37) after giving God His due, will then render to themselves their own due, and then to that (19:44) of their neighbor, by way of love and humble prayer, (continuously) which all of us have that (19:50) duty, and also by teaching them about The Faith, (God says doctrine), by giving example of a holy (19:57) and honorable life, and counseling and helping those according to the need of their salvation.(20:04) So with discretion, any soul, in any state of life, practices this by doing these things for (20:11) his neighbor, discreetly and lovingly, on the fertile ground of humility. (20:16)
“If I I speak with the tongues of men, and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And if I should have prophecy and should know all mysteries, and all knowledge, and if I should have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. And if I should distribute all my goods to feed the poor, and if I should deliver my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth with the truth; Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Charity never falleth away: whether prophecies shall be made void, or tongues shall cease, or knowledge shall be destroyed. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, that which is in part shall be done away. When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child. But, when I became a man, I put away the things of a child. We see now through a glass in a dark manner; but then face to face. Now I know in part; but then I shall know even as I am known. And now there remain faith, hope, and charity, these three: but the greatest of these is charity.”(1 Cor. 13) (DRB)
(22:09) On the next episode, God will give us a parable to meditate on about love, humility, and discretion.
(22:16) That will end our episode for today. If you have any questions or comments, (22:20) you can find my email in the contact button below. If you need a Catholic priest, (22:27) please reach out to me and I will help you find one. And now we will end in prayer.
In Nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen.
Ave Maria, gratia plena Dominus tecum benedicta tu in mulieribus et benedictus fructus ventris tui Jesus
Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, ora pro nobis peccatoribus, nunc et in ora mortis nostrae. Amen.
In Nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen.
(22:57) Thank you for listening and I will see you on the next episode.
Reference
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