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(0:00) Hello, and welcome to the Catholic Torch Podcast, episode 2. (0:06) We will start out with prayer as usual. (0:09) We will be praying the Memorare. (0:11) In Nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen. (0:15) Remember O most gracious Virgin Mary, that never was it known, that anyone who fled to thy protection, (0:21) implored thy help, or sought thy intercession, was left unaided. (0:25) Inspired with this confidence, I fly unto thee, O Virgin of Virgins and Mother. (0:31) To thee, do I come, before thee I stand, sinful and sorrowful.(0:35) O mother of the Word Incarnate, despise not my petitions, but in thy mercy, hear and answer me. (0:40) Amen. (0:41) In Nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen. (0:45) Today’s episode is sponsored by Juan’s Mobile Welding LLC. (0:51) Thank you again, Juan, for your continued support. (0:54) Once again, anything that is true and good and beautiful is due to the honor and glory of our Lord and our Lady, (1:03) and anything that is erroneous is purely my own fault.
(1:07) We will now continue with the dialogue of St. Catherine of Siena.
(1:11) This desire was great and continuous, but grew much more when the first truth showed her the neediness of the world, (1:19) and in what a tempest of offense against God at lay. (1:24) And she had understood this the better from a letter which she had received from a spiritual father of her soul, (1:32) in which she explained to her the penalties and intolerable dolor caused by offenses against God, (1:39) and the loss of souls and the persecutions of Holy Church.(1:43) All this lighted the fire of her holy desire with grief for the offenses, (1:48) and with the joy of the lively hope with which she waited for God to provide against such great evils. (1:56) And since the soul seems in such communion, sweetly to bind herself fast within herself and with God, (2:03) and knows better his truth in as much as the soul is then in God and God in the soul, (2:09) as the fish is in the sea, and the sea in the fish. (2:13) She desired the arrival of the morning, (for the morrow was a feast of Mary,) in order to hear Mass.(2:21) And when the morning came and the hour of the Mass, she sought with anxious desire her a custom place, (2:29) and with a great knowledge of herself, being ashamed of her own imperfection, (2:34) appearing to herself to be the cause of all the evil that was happening throughout the world, (2:39) conceiving a hatred and displeasure against herself, and a feeling of holy justice, (2:45) with which knowledge, hatred and justice, she purified the stains, which seemed to her to cover her guilty soul. (2:53) She said, “O Eternal Father, I accuse myself before thee an order that thou mayest punish me for my sins in this finite life, (3:01) and, and as much as my sins are the cause of the sufferings which my neighbor must endure, (3:08) I implore thee in thy kindness to punish them in my person.“
(3:13) Then the Eternal Truth seized and drew more strongly to Himself her desire, (3:18) doing as He did in the Old Testament, for when the sacrifice was offered to God, (3:23) a fire descended and drew to Him the sacrifice that was acceptable to Him. (3:28) So did the sweet truth to that soul, in sending down the fire of the clemency of the Holy Spirit, (3:35) seizing the sacrifice of desire that she made of herself, saying, (3:40) “Dost thou not know, dear daughter, that all the sufferings which the soul endures or can endure in this life (3:47) are insufficient to punish one’s smallest fault, because the offense being done to Me, who am the infinite good, (3:54) calls for an infinite satisfaction.(3:58) However, I wish that thou shouldest know, that not all the pains that are given to men in this life are given as punishments, (4:06) but as corrections, in order to chastise a son when he offends. (4:11) Though it is true that both the guilt and the penalty can be expiated by the desire of the soul, (4:17) that is by true contrition, not through the finite pain endured, but through the infinite desire, (4:23) because God, who is infinite, wishes for infinite love and infinite grief. (4:30) Infinite grief I wish from my creature in two ways.(4:34) In one way, through her sorrow for her own sins, which she has committed against me, her creator. (4:41) In the other way, through her sorrow for the sins which she sees her neighbors commit against me. (4:47) Of such as these, and as much as they have infinite desire, that is, are joined to me by an affection of love, (4:55) and therefore grieve when they offend me, or see me offended, their every pain, whether spiritual or corporeal, (5:04) from wherever it may come, receives infinite merit and satisfies for a guilt which deserved an infinite penalty, (5:12) although their works are finite and done in finite time. (5:16) But in as much as they possess the virtue of desire, and sustain their suffering with desire, (5:22) and contrition, and infinite displeasure against their guilt, their pain is held worthy.(5:28) Paul explained this when he said, (5:31) If I had the tongues of angels, and if I knew the things of the future and gave my body to be burned, (5:37) and have not love, it would be worth nothing to me. (5:40) The glorious apostle thus shows that finite works are not valid, either as punishment or recompense, (5:47) without the condiment of the affection of love. (Refrence 1)
(5:51) Now, just the same as last time, I will go back through and offer up some insight into what we have just read.
(5:59) “This desire was great and continuous, but grew much more when the first truth showed her the neediness of the world, (6:07) and in what a tempest of offense against God it lay. (6:11) And she had understood this the better from a letter, which she had received from the spiritual father of her soul, (6:18) in which he explained to her the penalties and intolerable dolor caused by offenses against God, (6:24) and the loss of souls and the persecution of holy church. (6:29) And all this lighted the fire of her holy desire with grief for the offenses, (6:33) and with the joy of the lively hope with which she waited for God to provide against such great evils.”
(6:43) So this says that God showed Catherine the neediness of souls to be prayed for and how serious the matter was, (6:49) and Catherine’s desire grew for their eternal salvation. (6:53) She understood how much more this was true because Blessed Raymond of Capua, had written her about this subject (6:59) further cementing this in her mind. (7:01) Blessed Raymond of Capua, was the man that we just heard about in the dialogue, who was Catherine’s spiritual father and confessor..
(7:12) “And since the soul seems in such communion sweetly to bind herself, (7:17) fast within herself and with God, and knows better His truth, (7:22) in as much as the soul is then in God and God in the soul, as the fish is in the sea, and the sea in the fish, (7:31) she desired the arrival of the morning, (for the morrow was a feast of Mary) in order to hear Mass.”
(7:39) This binding of oneself, within oneself, and with God in such sweet communion, Catherine is directly referring here to what has been said earlier (7:49) about the cell of self-knowledge. (7:52) A cell, in English culture or to non-Catholics, can sound a lot like a prison cell, a cage. (7:59) But this is not what is meant.(8:01) For a Catholic familiar with the tradition of the Church, a cell is a bedroom where a brother or sister religious would reside within a monastery or a convent. (8:12) Usually within a cell is a bed where one would sleep at night. (8:16) There would be a kneeler and a crucifix and maybe a few books depending on your order.(8:21) It was your own space to retire for the night, where you could be alone completely with God, a place of refuge from the daily chores and battle of everyday life. (8:30) Now the inner cell is the same thing except it’s in one’s deepest recesses of the soul inside one’s own body. (8:39) It’s a place that you retreat to, to be refreshed and to be with God.(8:44) A place where you do not have to be worried about anyone hurting you. (8:48) A “safe space”, if you will. (8:50) God will never hold you there against your own will.(8:53) It is a space that you build up within yourself, that you can design in your own fashion, however you wish, whatever you can dream up. (9:02) Where you go to talk with God. You invite God into that inner room where you can be vulnerable and close to Him. (9:10) God is the perfect gentleman and will never force his way in.(9:14) He waits to be invited patiently. (9:17) Once invited he has the perfect manners. (9:19) He is the Infinite Goodness.(9:21) The goal of this inner cell, is to never leave the presence of God, always remembering he is there, conversing with you all day, watching all day, giving you his time and attention all day, showing you love.
(9:54) “And when the morning came and the hour of the Mass, she sought with anxious desire, her accustomed place, and with a great knowledge of herself, being ashamed of her own imperfection, appearing to herself to be the cause of all the evil that was happening throughout the world, conceiving a hatred and (10:14) displeasure against herself, and a feeling of holy justice, with which knowledge, hatred and justice, she purified the stains which seemed to her to cover her guilty soul. (10:25) She said, O Eternal Father, I accuse myself before thee in order that thou mayest punish me for my sins in this finite life, and in as much as my sins are the cause of the sufferings which my neighbor must endure.(10:39) I implore thee in thy kindness to punish them in my person.”
(10:45) When the morning finally came, she hurried on to Mass early as to get her accustomed spot for Mass, and once there she started her examination of conscience, and looking to herself and her faults as if she was the cause for the whole world’s evils, formulated hatred and displeasure of herself, (11:06) cried out to God that she accused herself of these things, and that she did deserve to be punished in this life for her sins, but took it another step further begging God to punish her for the sins she had committed, that her neighbors were having to endure the punishment for as well.
(11:26) “Then the eternal truth seized and drew more strongly to himself her desire, doing as he did in the Old Testament, for when the sacrifice was offered to God, a fire descended and drew to him, the sacrifice that was acceptable to him. (11:42) So did the sweet truth to that soul in sending down the fire of the clemency of the Holy Spirit, seizing the sacrifice of desire that she made of herself.”
(11:54) Then God accepted the sacrifice that Catherine had offered up, just like in the Old Testament, when God sent fire down to consume the sacrifice. (12:03) He did so again when Catherine offered this sacrifice up to God, but instead of fire, he sent the Holy Ghost down in mercy to consume Catherine’s sacrifice. (12:15) A small side note to think about, I do not know for sure, but it seems to me, since she was at Mass, and Mass being a time for prayer and meditation and contemplation, that Catherine would have been doing her examination at the Confeitior, (12:31) and building up this hatred and displeasure against herself for her sins.(12:36) When the mass of the faithful started, which is right after the Creed, and the priest says Dominus Vobiscum, (12:43) she offered this sacrifice of herself up as her Mass intention. (12:47) She made it silently to God after the Creed, and before the priest turns around from his prayers, saying, Oraté Fratres, which is, Pray Brethren. (12:57) This action is the priest, asking God to stall for a second, so he may turn around from his right to his left, stopping in the middle of the turn. When he’s turned to the people to say, Oraté Fratres, or Pray Brethren, to collect all the intentions of the faithful, (13:17) to spiritually put them onto the patten with the bread that is about to be turned into the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ.(13:25) This is a last call, if you will, in Mass to add your intention for Mass onto the patten. But also it correlates to our Lord’s passion (13:35) when Pilate shows the people, Jesus Christ scourged and crowned with thorns, wearing a purple garment, holding a reed in his right hand, (13:44) and Pilate says to the people, Ecce Homo, or Behold the Man. (13:50) Since the priest is only acting Persona Christi in Mass, or in the person of Christ, Christ is actually using the priest to perform the actions on the altar.(14:00) And to offer the sacrifice of Himself, Catherine was offering to Christ her intention right there during Mass, and He accepted it, and when she received Holy Communion, when the time came, (14:11) is when God sent the fire of clemency of the Holy Ghost down upon Catherine to consume her sacrifice, because the victim was consumed. And Christ was wholly united to her, truly dwelling within her.
(14:26) “Saying, Dost thou not know, dear daughter, that all the sufferings which the soul endures, or can endure in this life, are insufficient to punish one’s smallest fault, because the offense being done to me, who am the infinite good, calls for an infinite satisfaction? (14:46) However, I wish that thou should us know, that not all the pains that are given to men in this life are given as punishments, but as corrections, in order to chastise the sun when he offends.”
(15:00) This is literally God finally talking to Catherine, and we’re hearing about it. (15:06) And God tells her, dearest daughter, all the sufferings the soul endures, or even can endure in this life, are not even enough punishment for even the smallest sin, because the offense that is being done to God, who is the Infinite Goodness, meaning goodness never ending, can’t do evil, not even a shred of evil, only good, (15:29) calls for an infinite satisfaction for even the smallest fault.(15:35) But then God tells Catherine that not all the pains He allows to be given, are given as punishments, but as corrections. (15:44) This tracks because “He that spareth the rod hateth his son, but he that loveth him correcteth, him betimes, (Proverbs 13, 24. DRA)”
(15:55) “Though it is true that both the guilt and the penalty can be expiated by the desire of the soul, that is, by true contrition, not through the finite pain endured, but through the infinite desire, because God, who is infinite, wishes for infinite love and infinite grief.”
(16:18) So God is telling Catherine here that the guilt and penalty due to the sin committed can be erased by the desire of the soul, not through the pain endured in this life, but by infinite desire, through infinite love and infinite grief.
(16:37) “Infinite grief I wish from my creature in two ways, in one way, through her sorrow for her sins, which she has committed against me her creator. (16:49) In the other way, through her sorrow for the sins which she sees her neighbor commit against Me.(16:55) Of such as these, and as much as they have infinite desire, that is, are joined to me by an affection of love, and therefore grieve when they offend me, or see me offended, their every pain, whether spiritual or corporeal, from wherever it may come, receives infinite merit, and satisfies for a guilt which deserved an infinite penalty. (17:19) Although their works are finite and done in finite time, but in as much as they possess the virtue of desire, and sustain their suffering with desire, and contrition, and infinite displeasure against their guilt, their pain is held worthy.”
So this is God still talking, and he says, this infinite grief comes in two ways, sorrow for our sins committed against God, our creator, and by sorrow for sins we see our neighbor commit against God.(17:53) So when we recognize we have sinned or see our neighbor sin against God, as long as they have infinite desire to love God, that soul’s every pain, whether spiritual or corporeal, corporeal meaning body, so in spirit or body, receives infinite merit and satisfies for the guilt that deserved a never-ending penalty. (18:17) Even though this work ends after a certain space of time, finite, and done with limits or bounds. So if the soul possesses the virtue of desire, and work through their suffering with desire and contrition, a profound and sincere sorrow for sin, recognizing that it is an offense against God, who is the Ultimate and Infinite Goodness, and an infinite displeasure against one’s guilt, (18:45) God says their pain is held worthy.
(18:47)”Paul explained this when he said, if I had the tongues of angels, and if I knew the things of the future, and gave my body to be burned, and have not love, it would be worth nothing to me. (19:00) The glorious apostle thus shows that finite works are not valid, either as punishment or recompense, without the condiment of the affection of love.“
(19:12) This is oftentimes where I hear our erring brethren get it wrong, but God has already explained it right here. (19:20) Our erring brethren always say that it’s by faith that we get into heaven, but it is not just by faith alone, it is by faith and works. (19:28) The Bible says faith and works, and God has just re-stated that for all of us to understand, but it has to be done with the condiment of the affection of love.(19:41) So every time a creature is allowed to be punished for his or her crimes against God or their neighbor, it is done with infinite love by God to correct his child that has gone astray. (19:53) If He is our example, our Perfect Example, then so much more must we follow this example of love, and fulfill the above requirements to expiate those guilts and punishments due to us, and to our neighbors. (20:10)
On the next episode, God continues by talking about how desire and contrition of heart satisfies both for the guilt and the penalty in oneself and in others, and how sometimes it satisfies for the guilt only and not the penalty.(20:29)
Well, that will end our episode for today. If you have any questions or comments, please feel free to drop me an email. You can find that in the Contact Us button below.(20:59) And now I would like to end the episode with an Ave Maria. In Nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen. Ave Maria, gratia plena Dominus tecum (16:12) benedicta tu in mulieribus et benedictus fructus ventris tui Jesus.
(16:18) Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, ora pro nobis peccatoribus, nunc et in ora mortis nostrae. Amen. In Nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen.
(21:13) Thank you for listening, and I will see you on the next episode.
Refrences
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